Hi Chris.

I shoot Rimfire mainly at 50m and use probes.
A top local shooter told me a probe will not tell you when to shoot but will tell you when not to shoot.
Thats how I use them and I think they help me.
Belmont, Brisbane in a couple weeks will be the test, that range is always good for some wind.

Brett

G'day all,
well I saw 2 of them for the first time properly at the CF group nationals at Eagle Park in 2007, they might have been owned by 2 different shooters and they may have adjustable dampening on the indicator arm, but when two separate probes about 25m apart and one shows a mild cross wind component and the other is at full deflection, forget it! Eagle Park may have a reputation for wind but it ain't that crazy!

FWIW, a wind flag regardless of make or ownership still shows 80%-90% the same wind, I sure dont know about those probes if they are adjustable or not. Imaging a field of the suckers and not one adjusted the same, it'd do your head in. You would have to use a very sensitive trigger pull gauge to adjust the weight required to move the arm to 30% and then 60% of their travel and would need a dry lube like graphite so as not to attract dust etc. It's all a bit problematic me thinks.

Also, using just a few probes on the range are only sampling 2-4 spots, hardly a true indication of wind behaviour. And before anyone has a go at me, I'm in the aviation industry and any duplicated indicator/gauge must be adjusted the same so pilots do not become confused when scanning their instuments, much like we do with flags, can't imagine a shooter (or a pilot) seeing visually the same instrument, but each showing completely different information! Now which one was which................and which one do I TRUST??????

If the owner(s) of those probes would like to offer an explaination I'd sure apreciate it. Until then I'll take my chances with the usual wind flags.

Food for thought anyway

Cheerio Geoff

When Gene Beggs built the wind probe, he expected they would replace flags, but even he acknowledges now that probes work best in conjunction with flags. As already mentioned above, probes make a good “no shoot” indicator, while flags give you most of the information you need to pick a shooting condition.

I think they are actually quite good for shooting in strong winds (eg Eagle Park) because once you get a strong gust and the tails are maxed out (and , yes, you may have to shoot your target in that) picking an extra 5pmh blow just from flags is pretty hard and any additional information is good to have. Even in light conditions, the probes can give you a bit more information when a stronger breeze comes through. So while I wouldn’t like to see the whole field covered with them, I do like probes on the range at a match.

I think its no different to any other equipment you use in this game, you need to work out how it works for YOU, and include it or exclude it from your game as you see fit. I definitely think probes are worth trying. And just to note, probes do have adjustable damping that can be set by the user. Otherwise a single setting wouldn’t budge in a light wind, or would lay over at full value in a moderate wind. Its up to the owner, or a group of owners working in concert to cover the range to decide how the probe will be set.

G'Day All,
thanks Fergus for the clarification on the damping, I suspected as much. I agree that every shooter must find what works best for them, I just didn't fancy the conflicting info presented by the two probes I saw set up, maybe that's why I didn't shoot well at the last victorian Nats! LOL

I believe it would then make more sense to have two indicating arms with different coloured "cups" on them one for light winds and one for heavy winds rather than having two probes setup separately for light and heavy.

It would be a familiar indicator, much like a pair of hands on a watch for hours and minutes. Pilots altimeters use the same set up for 1000's and 100's of feet. I suppose it would be possible to modify a probe for two indicators if someone was keen to do so. It would probably only add to my confusion!

Cheerio Geoff

I am all for leaning so could you answer a couple questions for me and some other comments.
First my back gound is science, climate science so I understand calabrated equipment.
Bits from your post is below at the bottom and my stuff below.
1: The probes I build are fully adjustable, and I at least try to standardized them, but more important how to you calabrate your wind flags so they are all the same?
2: What do you run in your flags, why can probes not run the same? I use different size bearings but the same brand Full stainless dry run bearings in both my flags and probes.
3: There are alot more probes on a range these days, I run 2 in each of my lanes, 6 at a RBA match and 10 at a Group match (with at least 2 flags in each lane as well).
4: The probes or Flags for that fact do not need to read the same as each other just need to look like they did when you were on the sighter and hitting 10s.
Regards Brett

1: I sure dont know about those probes if they are adjustable or not. Imaging a field of the suckers and not one adjusted the same,
2: and would need a dry lube like graphite so as not to attract dust etc. It's all a bit problematic me thinks.
3: Also, using just a few probes on the range are only sampling 2-4 spots,
4:can't imagine a shooter (or a pilot) seeing visually the same instrument, but each showing completely different information! Now which one was which................and which one do I TRUST??????

.

With a name like iBalls they should be popular with you QLD lads.

Seriously iBalls are you sure.

Craig

G'Day All,
firstly I dont shoot RF BR so if the bulk of the shooters using wind probes are in RF and they work for you thats great use them to YOUR advantage.
The main point I wanted to make was any instruments sampling multiple points should present the data the same way to simplify the reading of theat data. For wind flags build them the same, have them balance the same, same colours etc
In the instance I described at Little River Nationals, here were two probes, in very similar wind showing completely different cross wind components all the time. If you dont know Lt Rvr, it is a wide open range that has reasonably consistent wind strengths. So the two probes should have been showing about the same deflection. They were not and I then ignored them as it is my right to do so. If another shooter got value out of them them thats great, I personally like the BRT flags but the Edgely flags do a very good job as well. My rough and ready homemade flags are very similar to those descibed in Mike Ratigans book but a little more agricultural but they still show the wind strength and angles fairly well in the stronger wind we Victorians shoot in.
I firmly believe the flag appearance should be identical and mechanically the same but VERY responsive to angle changes any lag in response = FALSE information that potentially leads to a poor decision making and shot. You should be able to trust the flags in front of you and recognise the angle and strength fast so as not to miss a change and keep shooting when the conditions allow. If the flags do not show the same info or if the probes do not show the same deflection for a given wind speed the risk of shooting at the wrong time is increased.
My flags are cut out of corflute using a template to ensure correct size and my tails are all the same length. I use a bike spoke to be the pivot all cut to the same length and filed cleanly to reduce drag from any burr. The length of the flag vane has enough leverage to ensure I quickly see the angle changes and be responsive to changes. The tails are about 1m long and like a kite's tail stabilse the vane in the wind and for ranges south of the Great Deviding Ranges in Victoria, they work well. Also when they are shot up by general shooters on the range they are cheap to replace, unlike the BRT/Edgely flags.
My experience in aviation (model aircraft, building Nomads & F/A-18 jets [G.A.F.] and Qantas line maintenance) for over 30 years of making and fixing things that fly, I think, seems to be a reasonably good background to understanding movement of air over objects and perhaps understanding wind flag behaviour and indications. Personally I think the probes are a great idea but they should show the same deflection for the same wind strength. You should be able to lace any probe in any position and they should show the same information, not need to be adjusted greatly.
Anyhow, these are my thoughts and if anyone believes differently, thats fine, please use what ever WORKS for you, that's what makes BR so special. Because your idea could well be the next best thing, remember no-one knew what an aircraft should look like or for that matter a PPC case either but thankfully persistent, innovative inventors made it happen!
Cheerio Geoff